Leading Women: Interview with Julia Chen

As part of our Leading Women series, we want to highlight the professional challenges and career aspirations of the women we work with here in Asia. 

In this feature, Julia Chen, Head of Supply Chain at Avon Taiwan, shares how having clarity on your career goals and life priorities will guide you professionally, navigate the risks and opportunities in your career, and make you feel fulfilled in life.

Amy Chang, Associate Partner at Page Executive Taiwan, speaks with Julia Chen, Head of Supply Chain at Avon Taiwan, on her leadership style and career journey. 

Q: Could you share some key experiences from your career journey?  

When I think about my past experiences, I would like to talk about them in three stages.  

The first stage is when we have just started working. What is the most important thing now from my view? The first is discipline. We talk about discipline and self-discipline. You must do your best, know your work division, and deliver it on time with quality. These are the pillars of discipline.   

Second, cultivate your professional skills. When you begin your career, no matter the work function, try your best to learn as much as possible and do it well. I went through this and found that the most critical and challenging aspect is having a sense of self-awareness. Understand yourself, and know your advantages and shortcomings. Deep dive into your capabilities.  

This was also a time of self-transformation. If you are where you want to be in your career now, it would be because you know what you bring to the table as a professional, the pitfalls to avoid, and the best way for you to manage others. 

The third stage is when you reach the senior manager level, where the next step is to work towards the global leadership team. You have accumulated 20 years (or more) of work experience professionally, and you know how to navigate the risks and opportunities in your career.   

Another one is being willing to share your learnings and experience because we would have considerable abilities by this career stage, and we should help guide new hires and young people in their careers. The happiness that comes from helping others is pure joy, and that makes you feel fulfilled in life.   

Q: Do you have any challenges or difficulties as a female leader?  

Women, most women, not all, to my understanding, including myself, will reach a challenging stage, usually between their 30s to 40s. That is when they start to set up their family unit and have children. If she wants to work, she has to juggle being a mother and a full-time employee. This is during the second stage of rapid growth that I mentioned previously.  

I would sum up that experience as “a candle being lit from both sides”, a saying we have in Taiwan. At that time, I learned that I had to prioritise. For me, family is always my no.1 priority. When schedule conflicts happen, you must be clear about what should come first, second and third. 

The second thing is education. If I were fulfilling my academic degree at that time, then education would be my second priority. Work will then be my third priority. 

You would not be able to work efficiently without a positive and supportive family. Secondly, you wouldn’t be motivated for future growth without continuous education, which will conflict with the third priority. Still, we could only learn to prioritise under each circumstance and deal with the most important matter rather than the most urgent one.   

You would learn that when you have dealt with the most important thing, the urgent tasks no longer come across as critical as they do initially. Positive family support and educational experience will help you succeed at work. This is what I would share with my female friends. 

Q: How do you deal with the obstacles you encounter in your career?  

As I mentioned earlier, the second stage of your career is the most challenging period. Most obstacles faced at work stem from communication and behaviour issues rather than skill sets. 

Perhaps you felt that you made it clear to your colleague about a particular issue, but your words fell on deaf ears. Sometimes, you may think that you are working hard towards the company directive, but your manager and colleagues do not see it. It mostly comes down to how we express ourselves through our behaviours and thinking process, how to cooperate and collaborate with others, and how to improve and transform ourselves at the same time. That is the most challenging. 

As I mentioned, you need to face problems honestly, regardless of how you feel. That sounds simple, but it is the most challenging and requires you to self-reflect deeply. Find ways to interact with others and pick the most suitable communication style that works for you. 

Speak frequently with others and get feedback from your seniors and peers on how you can further improve professionally. Secondly, read more. I feel this is helpful because books are wisdom from others, and interestingly, you would learn more about yourself from reading. 

Q: Do you think there was a moment in your past career when you felt like you were making sacrifices?  

You may think it's strange, but I don't think I made any sacrifices. Why? This comes down to knowing what you want from the get-go. Once I know what to focus on, I do not get distracted by other things. And when we know our priorities and what we want, we can communicate that with our family members and come to a common understanding. Due to that, my children grew to be very independent. 

Although we are not like other families that see each other every day, we have strong family bonds. In fact, we treat each other like friends. Everyone is independent and takes care of themselves. This lifestyle has been set into place as we know what we want. 

You would see most people blaming others for how things panned out. For instance, they would blame their employer or bosses; I have heard many complaints. This is the wrong mindset. No one can influence or make you do something unless you allow it. Our lives are what we decide them to be. 

Q: What kind of activities do you do to relieve stress?  

I think stress comes from yourself, not others. So, firstly, don’t stress yourself out. When faced with challenges, I do not see them as stressful tasks but simply as tasks to complete and move on. A saying goes, “things will come as they should, don’t stay in the past”. So, I don’t get stressed up. 

The essence of the human body is to be close to nature, so exercise can help manage stress. Exercise greatly benefits the body. Recently, I did yoga, walked five laps at the park and went hiking. There is no better thing than exercise. 

Q: Whether it is life or career, what do you think is the best decision you have ever made, and what is the worst decision? 

I feel that throughout my career, whether in the medical field, a relatively competitive consumer electronics industry, or now in cosmetics – an industry I am not familiar with – I always think through clearly, weigh the pros and cons, and carry on without regret. Evaluating every career decision clearly is important, as there is no going back, and you don't want to regret your choices.

Q: 在整個職場的整個旅程當中，你覺得你可以跟我們分享一下你自己的一些經驗嗎？

我回想一下自己過去一路是怎麼走過來的，我想把它分成三個階段。

第一個階段其實就是我們剛進入職場的時候，這個時候其實最重要的是什麼？第一個就是discipline紀律自律，因為唯有把自己做好，知道自己的分工，然後準時把工作交付精確地完成它。
 
第二個培養自己的專業能力。今天我進入職場，我是在哪一個職能上工作，我要在職能上盡我的能力去學習，把它做到精做到巧。我自己經驗這個時候其實有個地方是非常重要，其實也是最困難， self-awareness，瞭解自己，知道自己的優點，自己的缺點，用放大鏡看清自己的能力。  

這段時間其實是一個蛻變的階段。這個時候其實如果能夠成功的找到自己的定位，我覺得對未來的職涯是非常好的，原因是因為你會知道怎麼樣是自己的強項，什麼應該去避開，然後知道如何用最適合自己的方法去跟別人溝通。
 
第三個階段其實就大部分如果能夠成功的再往上走，其實已經就到達Senior manager的階段，能更快到達 Global的leadership team了。我自己的一個反省跟經驗，就是要如何學會處理不清楚的模棱兩可的狀態，因為這個時候你會面對很多環境的變化跟不確定性。這個部分是來自於你過去沉浸十幾年20年的一個工作上專業的經驗，以及你從過去的學習當中知道如何去洞察這個趨勢，然後判斷它的風險跟機會。
 
還有另外一個就是樂於付出，因為我這個時候我覺得其實我們都已經有相當的能力，我們應該在職涯中多點幫助新進的年輕人。透過幫助別人帶來的快樂，我覺得是真的是一個純粹的喜悅，然後會讓你的人生當中覺得非常的圓滿豐富。 

Q: 作為女性領導者，是否會遇到一些挑戰或困難？

女性，大部分的女性,不是所有的,大部分女性我所理解的包括我自己，我們其實會有一個階段是比較的困難地，就是進入家庭就有了自己的家庭，然後小孩子之後，這個時候剛好她處在30~40歲，其實就是我講的第二個階段，就是快速的成長期，可是同個時間點，她又要面臨家庭的一個轉變，我要開始學習怎麼樣，有了小孩子我要怎麼樣開始學習，有了自己的家庭。
 
這個時候其實臺灣常講的蠟燭兩頭燒，我特有這種感受，所以那個時候我的經驗就是第一個最重要是確定好自己的優先順序，所以當你有時間衝突的時候，非常的清楚什麼第一什麼第二什麼第三，那對我來說家庭永遠是第一。

第二個學業，如果因為當時我有在念就是在進修，所以學業對我來說是第二。第三才是工作。

沒有好的家庭氛圍，其實你沒有辦法好好的工作。第二個你不學習，你沒有未來成長的動力，這三者其實是會衝突的，可是我們只能在每個狀況當中學習如何先把優先順序弄清楚，處理你最重要的而不是最急的事。 

你會發現把最重要的事情處理好，急的事情它會慢慢的變少。因為當例如說你有好的家庭氛圍，你有好的學習的經驗，他會幫助你在工作上更順利，所以我覺得這個是我現在以我自己經驗可以分享給很多女性朋友的。

Q: 你在職場上遇到的阻礙，你又是怎麼樣排解的呢？ 

我覺得職場上一樣，就像我剛剛講分成三個階段，其實我覺得最辛苦其實真的是第二階段。我們經常在職場上面對的阻礙，很多都來自於溝通的問題，行為的問題，而不是工作技巧的問題。

在職場當中你會常發現為什麼？我覺得我說得很清楚，對方不明白，或者是說對方並沒有照你說的來做。有時候會覺得我們很努力，我們想要朝著這個公司的方向走，為什麼我們的同事我的老闆沒有認可我，其實很多東西都在於其實是我們怎麼樣從行為上，我們的邏輯思考上怎麼樣去表達，怎麼樣去跟別人合作，這時候如何把自我轉換，其實那一段時間我覺得是最大的挑戰。

就像我剛剛講的，你要誠實的面對自己最大的問題，怎麼樣放下情緒，很單純就事情去處理事情，我覺得是最大挑戰，而且這個是不容易由想去上課獲得，反而要透過自己的很多的內心，然後去找尋很多的方法去跟別人互動去試一試，然後得出最適合自己的一種講的溝通的模式，溝通的style。

但我鼓勵大家還是，第一個多跟別人交談，經常去詢問你的上司，你的同事，你覺得我有什麼可以再改進？第二個多看書，我覺得這個很有幫助，因為書其實就是前人的智慧，從書當中你可以得到很多自己。

Q: 你覺得在過去的職涯中，曾經有沒有時刻覺得是自己在做出犧牲？

我如果說沒有，可能大家會覺得很奇怪，可是我不覺得我有，為什麼呢？因為可能就是因為第一個我剛剛講自省的時候，其實你會知道什麼是你想要的，所以一旦我很確定什麼是我想專注的，其他的其實我不太在意，無所謂；第二個是因為我們很知道我們的優先順序，也知道我們要的，所以我們會很 open minded的跟我的家人來談，所以其實我的小孩很獨立的。

我們雖然不像別人這樣子這麼緊密的天天生活在一起，可是我們其實有的是真實的家庭情感，而且大家都像朋友一樣，每個人都很獨立照顧自己，所以覺得這個是我們一路因為清楚自己要什麼，所以我們自然就形成這樣的一個生活模式。 

我想講人生是怎麼樣，真是自己決定沒有人能夠影響我們的，我覺得說說很多人都會怪別人，就是說這公司怎麼這個樣子，老闆怎麼這個樣子，我聽到了非常多，其實都是錯誤的，沒有人可以影響我們自己。

Q: 你都怎麼樣去舒壓的，你都做什麼樣的活動？

坦白說我覺得這個壓力來自于其實是自己給的，不是給別人給的，所以當然第一個不要吃盡壓力，所以對很多的挑戰，我其實沒有把它視為是壓力，我覺得事情來了，我們把它做完就擺一邊，那麼其實頭角經常講的 “物來則應 ，過去不留” ，這是第一個我不吃壓力進來。 
 
那麼第二個就是。我覺得人的身體本質就像我剛才第一個接近大自然，第二個運動其實也是蠻好的，運動能夠讓你整個人的身體狀態會回到最好的情況，所以多運動像我最近要麼做瑜伽，要麼就是去公園走個5圈或者去爬爬山，其實沒有別人聰明的方法。

Q: 不管是人生還是職涯上面，你覺得你做過最好的決定，以及最不好的決定是什麼？

我感覺一路走來，我的決定不管是從比較早期的醫療業，轉到一個比較競爭力很高的消費性電子，到現在來到一個新的我不熟悉的化妝品產業，我覺得當下都是想清楚了，然後決定我的風險跟我的機會，然後不後悔走下去，我覺得這就是最適合的決定，也沒有最糟糕的決定。所以說我不想這樣有沒有回答到你的問題，我覺得每個當下想清楚就好，因為路都沒辦法，回頭也不能後悔。

Amy Chang Associate Partner Page Executive Taiwan

This interview was conducted by Amy Chang, Associate Partner at Page Executive Taiwan. She graduated from Griffith University with a Bachelor’s Degree in Business and a Master of Business, International Tourism and Hospitality Management.

An accomplished recruitment professional, Amy is an Associate Partner and founding member of Page Executive Taiwan. With nearly a decade of experience in the industry, Amy has built an extensive network across diverse sectors such as Engineering & Manufacturing, Procurement & Supply Chain, Chemical Specialties, FMCG, Consumer Electronics, 3PL& Logistics, Construction, and E-commerce.

Since joining Michael Page in 2015, she has successfully placed executive professionals in top-tier organisations, delivering exceptional results for both her clients and candidates, before moving to Page Executive.

Amy has successfully placed diverse candidates not limited to general managers, heads of department, and directors with Taiwan-based companies listed in Europe, Singapore, and the United States.

Partner with Amy Chang to strengthen your leadership team today.